A Reasonable Answer To A Troublesome Question?

The following is my reply to an answer to a question that I had asked the local Church of Christ preacher concerning the Bible doctrine of an eternal hell. He had enlisted the help of an older preacher in answering this question and he published this answer in his weekly publication. Quotes from this preacher's article are in bold black letters--by the way, the local preacher never did respond to my reply:

by Kenneth W. Hawthorne 

A Reasonable Answer To A Troublesome Question, is an article written by Maurice Barnett published in the May 9, 2004, edition of Faith Builder. It was Barnett's attempt at answering this question that you presented to him (a question I had asked you): "Why would a God of love create a race of beings, knowing that He would have to sentence the vast majority of them to suffer forever in hell?" The question you presented to him is troublesome, but more important it is devastating to the truth of fundamentalist Christianity if it can't be answered satisfactorily. And Barnett has no satisfactory answer. He meanders around with a lot of irrelevant thoughts, but never even comes close to a satisfactory answer.

Some Things To Consider

I left the Church of Christ and Christianity in 2006. The following is a letter I wrote to a member of the congregation that I was a member of shortly after I left--I never received a reply:

by Kenneth Hawthorne

I have some things I would like for you to consider based on our talk at Panera Bread in Sept. Plus some thoughts and questions on the eternal hell taught in the Bible. I have had most of this letter ready for some time, but have just now decided to send it. I have presented some of this information about an eternal hell to you before--with no reply. You have asked me, "Kenneth, how could you?" (i.e., leave Christianity). Well, contained in this letter are some of the reasons how I could and why I did. You obviously think I made a bad decision to leave Christianity; then I would appreciate it if you would tell me why you disagree with the information in this letter. I will be more than happy to listen to what you have to say. 

What About Casualty Numbers?

The following article is from the 1995 / January-February issue of  *The Skeptical Review*:

by Farrell Till

William Sierichs' article [See previous article on this blog published yesterday, 5-5-18] on biblical armies should convince any objective reader that Yahweh's inspired writers had a penchant for hyperbole. If the great armies of fairly modern times, such as those that fought in the Napoleonic wars, numbered only in the tens of thousands, what reasonable person can believe that tiny Israel and its neighboring nations could have fielded armies that numbered in the hundreds of thousands? Obviously, then, biblical writers were prone to exaggeration.

Those Amazing Biblical Numbers: Taking Stock of the Armies of Ancient Israel

The following article is from the 1995 / January-February issue of  *The Skeptical Review*:

by William Sierichs, Jr

The survival of ancient Israel must have often been in doubt, since armies numbering in the hundreds of thousands repeatedly attacked the nascent state. The Israelites once stood off an Egyptian army of a million. Miraculously, for several centuries, Israel survived attacks by armies larger than those commanded by Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, the generals of the American Civil War, and even the massive forces of Prussia and France in 1870.

Those Resilient Heathens

Number 8 of 17 in the *Twilight Zone* series:

by Farrell Till

In an earlier column, we noted the amazing resilience of the Egyptian livestock during the infamous plagues that Moses rained down on Egypt. The plague of murrain, which the Bible described as "very grievous" (Ex. 9:3), killed "all the livestock of the Egyptians" (v:5), yet when the plague of hail came only days later, it "struck down everything that was in the open field throughout all the land of Egypt, both human and animals" (9:25). And so the story continued. A plague would come and strike both man and beast, sometimes specifying that all beasts were struck down, as well as their food supply, yet when the final plague came, some of the amazingly resilient livestock of Egypt were still alive to be killed in the plague against the firstborn (Ex. 11:5; 12:29). And even then the wonders didn't cease. Pharaoh was able to muster an army of "six hundred picked chariots and all the other chariots of Egypt," as well as other horsemen (14:6-28), to try to stop the Israelite exodus. Where but in the Twilight Zone of inerrant biblical history could anything so amazing happen?

Clearing Things Up

Till brings a biblicist back down to earth. From the Yahoo group, Alt. Bible Errancy, April 20, 2003:

Gray
Give the slightest objective proof, if possible, that Jesus still

exists, or ever existed, for that matter. You can't.

Larry
Gray, since you believe that he doesn't or ever has existed,

wouldn't you have to prove your point also? Do you believe 
that he doesn't exist, or do you know he doesn't exist? Could 
you give me conclusive evidence that Jesus doesn't exist? 
Maybe it's like trying to prove that you are Steve Gray! How 
would you prove that you are who you say you are?

TILL
Uh, excuse me, Larry, but he who asserts must prove. If I 
asserted that fairies exist, would you feel any obligation to 
prove that fairies do not exist?

Farrell Till

"God's" Inconsistency

They say that God says to me, "Forgive your enemies." I say, "I do;" but he says, "I will damn mine." God should be consistent. If he wants me to forgive my enemies he should forgive his. I am asked to forgive enemies who can hurt me. God is only asked to forgive enemies who cannot hurt him. He certainly ought to be as generous as he asks us to be. ~Robert Ingersoll

The Historicity Of Jesus

More common sense from Farrell Till concerning the 
historicity of Jesus (read Mt 27:45-55 to get the 
background for the following comments). From the 
Errancy Discussion list, 19 June 1997:

> TILL
> Peter, there are arguments from silence, and there are arguments from
> silence. It is unreasonable, for example, to suppose that certain events
> could happen and go unnoticed in contemporary records. How likely 
   would it be that the bombing in Oklahoma City would not have been 
   mentioned in contemporary records?

KIRBY
OK, I'll buy that. I would agree with you that the saints and the darkness
probably didn't happen. This only seems to have relevance to the doctrine
of inerrancy, not the historicity of Jesus.

TILL
But can't you see! The complete silence of secular contemporary records on
the life of a man who allegedly attracted multitudes from foreign countries
and surrounding towns and cities, and performed in their presence all sorts
of amazing signs and wonders makes it extremely important that the writings
about him that were left by his avowed disciples be exceptionally
trustworthy, but how can anyone consider records trustworthy that contain so
many impossible-to-believe entries like the three-hour period of darkness
and the resurrection of the many saints? If we wouldn't give claims like
these the time of day if we found them in any other book, why should we
accord them any more consideration just because they are found in a book
with "Holy Bible" embossed on the cover?

My argument all along has been that the NT gospels are so saturated with
fantastic claims about this man Jesus that, without extrabiblical
corroboration, it is impossible to determine what is fact and what is
fiction. Unfortunately for the Christian position, there just are not any
extrabiblical corroborations for its central claim of a resurrection from
the dead.

>TILL
> Far more likely than that a three-hour period of
> darkness from the failure of the sun's light would go unmentioned.
> Josephus's father was a priest "of great reputation in Jerusalem" (*The
    Life of Flavius Josephus,* 1:2), who would have therefore moved in priestly
> circles at the time Jesus was allegedly tried, crucified, and resurrected.
> Chapter 1 of the autobiograph will give a chronology that establishes the
> time frame. Matthias would have been in his 20s at the time. Chapter 2
> discusses Josephus's education, but he makes no mention of his father 
   ever having referred to the extraordinary events that allegedly 
   accompanied the crucifixion of a man named Jesus. I find this very 
   unbelievable and a most compelling "argument from silence."

KIRBY
I think you mean "believable."

TILL
No, you missed the point I was making. I was saying that I find it
unbelievable that Josephus's father could have witnessed three hours of
darkness at midday and a resurrection of many saints and yet not talked
about them enough to have made an impression on Josephus that would
have been reflected in his works by references to those events. When
World War II ended, I was 12 years old. I had a first cousin who piloted
an LST (landing barge) on D-Day that ferried soldiers from ships out at
sea to Omaha Beach. When he returned home, family members would
sit mesmerized and listen to him tell about his experiences that day, and
all that he experienced were only ordinary, perfectly natural events that
accompanied a massive invasion. I had another cousin on the other side
of my family who was a tail-gunner on a B-29 in the pacific area, and
we enjoyed listening to his reflections on bombing missions his crew
had flown, but there was nothing miraculous about any of the events
he talked about. Are we to assume that Josephus's father and countless
other contemporaries saw very phenomenal events in Jerusalem one
day and just shrugged them off and never talked about them or reported
them to people they had contacts with. Again, I will say that I find this
very unbelievable.

Farrell Till

Another Great Quote

When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized that I was talking to myself. 
                                               ~ Peter Barnes, The Ruling Class

Show Me the MONEY!

Even Christians realize that some NT commandments 

are ridiculous. From the *Errancy Discussion List*, 

11 Feb. 1997:

TILL
The passages that were quoted don't refer to loans, although there are
some passages that address loaning. In this case, the scripture that was
quoted says, "Give to EVERYONE who asks you and of him who takes
away your goods ask them not again" (Luke 6:30). So, Dave, I'm someone,
and I am asking you to give me $10,000. Your obedience to this
commandment of your savior will be appreciated.

(COURT 2/10) Farrell: My responses to Jason also apply here - so I won't
repeat them. I will not be sending you any money as there are others who
are in more dire need than you are for what limited resources I have -
beginning with my own son (and soon to come baby). My suggestion, if you
need money quickly, is to begin dismantling the expenditures you make on
your publications, time, computer and whatever other fringe payments you
have so that you can afford the basic necessities of life. That would be a
start - if you are really suffering, then let me know privately what exactly
you require and why, when and how you can expect to pay back the money,
and I'll be glad to help out should I be able to.

TILL
I didn't say anything about NEEDING the money, I just said that I want you
to give it to me. If you don't do it, then you are practicing smorgasbord
Xianity by selecting the passages to obey and rejecting the others. I also
have a question for you. If I came to Toronto, hot wired your car, and stole
it, would you report me to the police and try to get it back?

(COURT 2/10) Farrell: Yes, of course I would. You should abide by the law
and pay whatever penalty the government has set in place for your crime -
are you expecting a lawless society?

TILL
Would this also have been true in the time of Jesus when he said, "And of
him that takes away your goods ask them not again"?

(COURT) Would I ask for more from you than the law specifies? No. I have
nothing to gain from such action. By the way, I drive a Saturn - you may want
to try the Mercedes next door.

TILL
No, I want to steal your Saturn. The man next door may not be a Christian,
and so he could try to take the Mercedes back from me. By the way, I want
the money to be in US dollars. Every little bit helps.

(COURT 2/10) Farrell: Actually, $0 remains just that regardless of the
currency - so, no problem.

TILL
Well, you have confirmed exactly what I set out to prove: even Xians
recognize that some NT commandments are ridiculous. Your assistance
has been greatly appreciated.

Farrell Till