Till has to correct a biblicist's thinking on the Bible's teaching concerning when Jesus said he would return. From the Alt Bible Errancy discussion list, 31 May 1998:
Jesus would return in a unspecified time and that time was to beHarry Staiti:
Mk 13.28-30, Mt 24.32-34 and Lk 21.29-32 all predict that
within the first century.
>>
generation.
All the authors state that Jesus would return in ~their~
>TREVORI'm assuming you've recently joined the list, since this issue has
cite above are from three authors, but they all record the same
been under discussion on other threads. The three passages you
speech by Jesus. I just want to clarify that for anyone who has
not taken the time to look them up. There are no significant
differences between the three, so essentially we have but one
statement to deal with:
>
will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the
"But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun
stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will
be shaken, and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in
the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and
they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky
with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels
with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect
Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has
from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
already become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know
that summer is near; even so you too, when you see all these
things, recognize that He is near, {right} at the door. Truly I
say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these
things take place." (Matt 24:29-34, NAS)
>
between what each writer includes, these verses culminate in
Although there are some variations in the preceding discourse
all three, to end up with the statement in question. Having thus
identified the signs of His coming (in response to the disciples'
questions at the opening of the chapter), Jesus illustrates a point
with the fig tree. Just as it gives certain indications of the coming
of summer, these signs will show that Christ's coming is quite near.
In fact, He goes on to explain that the generation which sees "all
these things" will not pass away. In the context, there is every
reason to believe that "this generation" refers to those who see
the signs. It is only the bias of those who want to see an
implication of a first century return that requires it to refer to
the generation alive at the time Jesus was speaking.
TILL
As I said in another posting, when an inerrantist has to resort to
verbal gymnastics in order to show that the Bible doesn't mean
what it plainly says, you can know that his position is weak. Prior
to the passage that Trevor quoted, Jesus had made the
statement that there would not be one stone of the temple left
upon another but that all would be thrown down (Matt. 24:2).
In verse 3, the apostles reacted with three questions: (1) When
shall "these things" be? (2) What shall be the sign of your coming?
(3) [What shall be the sign] of the end of the world? It is therefore
reasonable to assume that these questions were answered in the
speech that followed.
THESE THINGS: So what did Jesus say about when "these
things" would be? Verses 4-14 speak about signs that should
not be interpreted as the approaching fulfillment of "these
things," but verses 15-28 speak about signs that did signal
the approach of "these things." When the "abomination of
desolation" spoken of by Daniel was seen standing in the
holy place, a "great tribulation" would follow "such as had
not been from the beginning of the world until now" or ever
after would be (v:21). Luke's account of this little yarn has
Jesus saying that when "you see Jerusalem compassed with
armies, then know that her desolation is at hand" (21:2).
The fact that the passage contains many statements parallel
to the versions in Matthew and Mark is a clear indication that
at least Luke thought this great tribulation would be associated
with the destruction of Jerusalem.
THE SIGNS of his coming: Matthew had Jesus saying that
"IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation of those days," the sun
would be darkened, the moon would not give its light, the
stars would fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens
would be shaken (v:29). Thus, Matthew had Jesus promising
that the signs of his coming would be seen IMMEDIATELY after
the tribulation of those days. That he was clearly talking about
the signs of his coming is very evident in the next verse: "And
then shall appear the SIGN of the Son of man in heaven." At
this time, so Jesus said, all the tribes of the earth would mourn
as they saw the Son of man coming on the clouds. He would
send forth his angels with the sound of a great trumpet, and
they would gather together his elect from one end of heaven
to the other (vs:30-31).
THE FIG TREE ANALOGY: Trevor has tried to make the fig tree
analogy mean that whatever generation sees "all these things"
will be the generation that will not pass away until all "these
things" be accomplished. This view requires a verbal contortion
of the text, because the disciples had asked when "these things"
would be, and the answer of Jesus was that the "great tribulation,"
which Luke identified as the destruction of Jerusalem, would
happen first, and then IMMEDIATELY after "the tribulation of
those days" the signs of his coming would follow. Thus, Jesus
was actually saying that his coming was as sure as the coming
of summer when a fig tree is seen putting forth its leaves. Notice
that this statement was obviously directed to the people he was
talking to: "Even so [or in the same way as in the fig tree
example] when YE [plural] see all THESE THINGS, know YE that
he is nigh, even at the doors" (v:33). To say that "ye" in this
statement referred to people who would be living thousands of
years later strains every principle of literary interpretation. The
apostles had asked Jesus three questions, and he answered them.
In so doing, he used "ye" throughout his speech to indicate that
he was talking about things that those men he was speaking to
would see themselves.
1. YE shall hear of wars and rumors of wars (v:6).
2. See that YE be not troubled (v:6).
3. Then shall they deliver YOU (plural) up unto tribulation and
shall kill YOU (plural), v. 9.
4. YE shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake (v:9).
5. When therefore YE see the abomination of desolation, which
was spoken of by Daniel... (v:15).
6. Pray YE that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the
sabbath (v:19).
There are various places in this chapter where Jesus did not use
the plural "you" to indicate that he was speaking only to his apostles.
1. Woe to them that are with child and to them that give suck in
those days (v:19).
2. Let him that is on the housetop not go down to take out the
things are in his house (v:17).
3. Let them that are in Judea flee unto the mountains (v:16).
Hence, the text contains examples that show that if Jesus were
addressing the statement about the signs of his coming NOT
to the group he was talking to (his apostles) but to third parties
who would live long afterwards, he would have used the third-
person references. However, in using YE in reference to "these
things" that YE shall see (v:33), it was evident that he was
speaking to the apostles. Therefore, when he said, "Verily I say
unto YOU (plural), THIS GENERATION will not pass away till all
THESE THINGS be accomplished," he obviously meant that THESE
THINGS would be accomplished within the lifetime of that
generation. To argue otherwise is to stretch principles of literary
interpretation beyond the limits of credibility. Furthermore, since
Luke identified the "tribulation" as the destruction of Jerusalem
and since Jesus said that the signs of his coming would be seen
IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation of those days, to make "this
generation" people who would live thousands of years later would
make the word "immediately" meaningless. After all, if words don't
mean what they mean, literary interpretation is impossible.
The only sensible conclusion is that people of that time thought
that they were living in the "end times," and there are various NT
scriptures that clearly show that this was a commonly held belief.
They were wrong. Hence, the Bible is far from inerrant.
Farrell Till
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