The following are some of my comments from a discussion I had with a Christian:
You conveniently discard or have never even read the parts of the Bible that show Yahweh to be unjust, murderous and just a plain sick cad by any reasonable code of morality. I will bring some of these verses to your attention. I hope you will begin a critical analysis of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, because that is the only way you will arrive at the truth. [Only] looking for reasons to believe in any endeavor, religious or secular, is not a blueprint for finding the truth.
1) Yahweh (Yahweh is a transliteration of the Hebrew word for God) ordered rape, child molestation, child abuse, and murder:
Numbers 31:9 And the children of Israel took the women of Midian captive, with their little ones, and took as spoil all their cattle, all their flocks, and all their goods. 10 They also burned with fire all the cities where they dwelt, and all their forts. 11 And they took all the spoil and all the booty—of man and beast. 12 Then they brought the captives, the booty, and the spoil to Moses, to Eleazar the priest, and to the congregation of the children of Israel, to the camp in the plains of Moab by the Jordan, across from Jericho. 13 And Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the congregation, went to meet them outside the camp. 14 But Moses was angry with the officers of the army, with the captains over thousands and captains over hundreds, who had come from the battle.
15 And Moses said to them: “Have you kept all the women alive? 16 Look, these women caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the LORD in the incident of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. 18 But keep alive for yourselves [my emphasis in red, kh] all the young girls who have not known a man intimately.
25 Now the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: 26 “Count up the plunder that was taken—of man and beast—you and Eleazar the priest and the chief fathers of the congregation; 27 and divide the plunder into two parts, between those who took part in the war, who went out to battle, and all the congregation. 28 And levy a tribute for the LORD on the men of war who went out to battle: one of every five hundred of the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep; 29 take it from their half, and give it to Eleazar the priest as a heave offering to the LORD. 30 And from the children of Israel’s half you shall take one of every fifty, drawn from the persons, the cattle, the donkeys, and the sheep, from all the livestock, and give them to the Levites who keep charge of the tabernacle of the LORD.” 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
32 The booty remaining from the plunder, which the men of war had taken, was six hundred and seventy-five thousand sheep, 33 seventy-two thousand cattle, 34 sixty-one thousand donkeys, 35 and thirty-two thousand persons in all, of women who had not known a man intimately. 36 And the half, the portion for those who had gone out to war, was in number three hundred and thirty-seven thousand five hundred sheep; 37 and the LORD’s tribute of the sheep was six hundred and seventy-five. 38 The cattle were thirty-six thousand, of which the LORD’s tribute was seventy-two. 39 The donkeys were thirty thousand five hundred, of which the LORD’s tribute was sixty-one. 40 The persons were sixteen thousand, of which the LORD’s tribute wasthirty-two persons.(NKJV)
"Booty", def., Answers.com., "Goods or property seized unlawfully, especially by a victor in wartime".
"Plunder", def., Answers.com., "To rob of goods by force, especially in time of war: Synonyms, depredate, despoil, havoc, loot, pillage, ransack, rape, ravage, sack2, spoliate, strip1."
In the above passage the people who weren't murdered by the Israelites, the 32,000 virgin girls, are called booty, and plunder. They were seized wrongfully, against their will and were looked upon as nothing but goods or property. Half of these "goods or property" was given to the congregation, minus the Levites' 320, and the other half, minus Yahweh's 32, was given to the men who had gone out to battle. Even if we assume that these soldiers only made them wives--they were captives who were there against their wills. Most, no doubt, were mere children, teens and preteens whose mothers, fathers and brothers had just been brutally murdered by these soldiers at Yahweh's orders. There is no way they would have had any inclination to marry these murderers of their close family--any marriage would have been coerced and therefore, rape. (See also, Deut 21:10-14).
"Rape", def., Wikipedia [Note: The article in Wikipedia has been edited as a part of Answers.com. and no longer has this exact wording, but the sense remains the same.],
In the above passage the people who weren't murdered by the Israelites, the 32,000 virgin girls, are called booty, and plunder. They were seized wrongfully, against their will and were looked upon as nothing but goods or property. Half of these "goods or property" was given to the congregation, minus the Levites' 320, and the other half, minus Yahweh's 32, was given to the men who had gone out to battle. Even if we assume that these soldiers only made them wives--they were captives who were there against their wills. Most, no doubt, were mere children, teens and preteens whose mothers, fathers and brothers had just been brutally murdered by these soldiers at Yahweh's orders. There is no way they would have had any inclination to marry these murderers of their close family--any marriage would have been coerced and therefore, rape. (See also, Deut 21:10-14).
"Rape", def., Wikipedia [Note: The article in Wikipedia has been edited as a part of Answers.com. and no longer has this exact wording, but the sense remains the same.],
Rape is a form of assault where one individual forces another to have sexual intercourse against that person’s will. Sexual violence can also be a war crime under international law. Consent may be absent due to duress arising from the use, or threat, of overwhelming force or violence, or because the subject is incapacitated in some way such as intoxication or being underage. In some cases coercion might also be used to negate consent.
2) Yahweh showed his unjustness and murderous nature, which would be considered such by any reasonable moral code, in I Samuel 15:2-3, where he ordered the murder of even babies for a perceived crime committed by the Amalekites 400+ years earlier:
I Samuel 15: 2 Thus says the LORD of hosts: ‘I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.(NKJV)
3) As "punishment" to David for his adultery with Bathsheba and the murder of Bathsheba's husband, what does the just and righteous judge Yahweh do? He kills David and Bathsheba's son!:
2 Samuel 12: 3 So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” And Nathan said to David, “The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14However,because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die.”(NKJV)
4) David took a census of Israel and this made Yahweh mad, so how did the just and righteous judge of all the earth "punish" David? He murdered 70,000 Israelites. Huh? Yep, I'm sure David really felt the brunt of that "punishment":
I could go on, but surely these examples are enough for you to see that Yahweh can not be God. And this is an insurmountable problem for the would-be apologists of the New Testament. Because the god of the New Testament is inextricably attached to the god of the Old Testament. They are one and the same, this impossibility called---Yahweh.
Bottom line: It must be proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Yahweh is the true God. You make the presumption that Yahweh is such without regard to the overwhelming evidence against such wishful thinking. The Bible, by it's own admission (Romans 10:17), is where the nonbeliever is directed to go to find adequate evidence and thereby proof that Yahweh is God. But when one goes there what does he find? Evidence that is so against Yahweh being God that only credulous, wishful thinkers who have no desire to critically examine this evidence can believe Yahweh is the true God.
Yahweh's actions as recorded in the Bible go counter to self-evident moral truths that we all agree on. Rationally, one can't say I believe Yahweh is God without critical analysis of the evidence presented. One can't say, rationally--yeah, I know Yahweh ordered the rape of the 32,000 Midianite female children, but nevertheless, I believe he is the true God. No, no, no, that's not the way rational thought works. This piece of information is not something you can make an exception of. This piece of information goes to the very heart and is fundamental to whether Yahweh can be considered the true God. Just how do you rationalize this command from Yahweh? And be very, very careful to look closely at your thought process.
I believe there are moral absolutes. Rape is always wrong. It is self-evident. Therefore, it is never right to rape another person, nor order someone else to rape another person, nor to condone it or make excuses for it. It is always wrong for man to do it and it is always wrong for man to put these words in the mouth of God as a command from him.
My problem with Yahweh is not that he allows [finite] suffering and pain. My problem with Yahweh is that there are commands "which are said to come from God, which would disgrace the character of any honest man, and make him a candidate for prison."(Elihu Palmer--Principles of Nature-1801).
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